What constitutes a better human?

topic posted Sun, August 14, 2005 - 4:48 AM by  offlineLynne
Good title for this tribe, but tell me all, what constitutes a better human in your eyes?
posted by:
Lynne
United Kingdom
  • Re: What constitutes a better human?

    Sun, August 14, 2005 - 6:35 AM
    Improved physical and mental abilities.

    You can take the physiological column and the psychological column and begin to apply a kind of pros and cons list to both, then after a few selections attempt to integrate the two columns again.

    For example a more adept (intelligent ) human might also be more empathetic and compassionate by one persons' definition and another may consider eliminating emotion. One might be more socially compatable and another might be more individually independent, a third might even be both.

    Personally I do not consider emotion a failing but many consider it a compromise to objective intelligence.

    Physical characteristics could include heightened immune response, longevity, increases of physical strength and ability or even transformational ability, like an ability to become aquatic, photosynthesize energy or breathe alternative atmosphere, for off world adaptation.

    Mostly the concept of betterhuman is more of what we have already but also to acquire characteristics we might deem desirable for whatever reason. That is why many of us are classified as *Transhuman*.

    Humans in a *transformational phase*. Human pushing the evolutionary envelope by creating memetic models of desirable adaptation.

    Anyone mine is only one opion and there are mmany others to contribute theirs.
    • Re: What constitutes a better human?

      Sun, August 14, 2005 - 7:10 AM
      Greatly increased lifespan! After that, to be stronger, to have better and more senses. In the later we can weakly "see" infrared now with our skin but can not focus an image. How about being able to selectively receive radiation in the radio spectrum?

      Then greatly reenforce the spinal column, vision all around the head and a much extended spectrum of frequences we can hear. A prehensile tail should be considered although it would greatly complicate clothing fashions!

      I was about to say a sense of smell as good, at least, as a dog's but then I started imagining a human society with everyone going around sniffing each other for identification and sexual stimulation. Got to watch out here!
    • Re: What constitutes a better human?

      Tue, April 4, 2006 - 4:31 PM
      As a single father of five, I believe that emotions are absolutely required for the survival of the species. I could not help but love my children. I had no choice, I am just wired that way. This is a good thing. If I had no emotions at all, I do not believe that any of the little monsters would have lived past the age of three.

      I am sure many of you know what I mean.
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    Re: What constitutes a better human?

    Tue, August 16, 2005 - 2:23 AM
    To begin with, I'd say anything that increases awareness of self and of one's environment is of primary importance. I DON'T mean anything mystical or supernatural, just plain wakefulness much improved over what's the norm for most. Making the better human HAS to necessarily begin with better awareness of who and what you've been and who and what you are NOW. This would of course mean a major reduction in or complete eradication of irrationalism in the individual. It's a major undertaking to master irrational thought and behavior, however, I don't believe it to be impossible. The only place to begin in that is to honestly desire a more rational life.

    Then, of course, once one's cleared irrational habits of thought and deed out of one's life or, in the least, gained much greater control of same, major improvements or additions to the tools of experience - the senses - seems a logical next step. If the mind is thinking clearly - finally - a clearer, more focused, much more wakeful mind will need quality and quantity of information.

    As for physical health, all that improves endurance, strength, resistance to disease and longevity appear essential. Once the mind and senses give one the stuff of experience, a longer healthier life gives one the time to make use of it all.

    Others much more versed in the "transhumanist" or "better human" concept will speak more of biological science to get there, i.e., enhancements, improvements, additions to the organism itself. That's certainly an important part of it, however, a stronger, faster, healthier, longer-living human being isn't much improved if he continues to think and behave in the same old irrational ways. Improved awareness of the "inner" and "outer" environments - authentic, genuine views of what's real and what's not - and improved ability to think, to reason, are primary to all else.

    Really, nothing else could change about us, however, if we would simply wake up to the real world, the real universe and our real selves and the selves of others and other lifeforms, and do away with the fantasies and irrational thoughts and behaviors that stunt our development, a truly revolutionary change would happen in our evolution and make the scientific advancements a much more certain bet.
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      B
      offline 113

      Re: What constitutes a better human?

      Sat, August 20, 2005 - 9:36 AM
      < Improved physical and mental abilities. >

      Didn't Hitler try this once?

      This is all well and good to have a better human but what happens if the human cannot live in their environment? Would all of this effort to engineer a better human also be much better is the human can learn to live with the environment?
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        Re: What constitutes a better human?

        Sat, August 20, 2005 - 12:24 PM
        Well, a "better" human who couldn't live in his environment wouldn't actually be an improvement or "better." Perhaps one of our greatest strengths as human beings is the fact we're able to adapt to many varied enironments so, an improvement to the organism would be to expand the types of environments we can live in, not reduce our adaptability.
      • Re: What constitutes a better human?

        Sat, August 20, 2005 - 12:52 PM
        >>>Didn't Hitler try this once? <<<

        No Bee he didn't.

        He sold a cruel policy of genocide masked as a inviable social eugenics program. His goals were not rationally based or scientifically objective they were politically biased and scientifically corrupt.

        I for one would include compassion as a quality for a more intelligent better human for example.

        Hitler didn't count compassion as a sign of intelligence but that is actually an example of why his doctrinaire bigotry was scientifically corrupt.
        • B
          B
          offline 113

          Re: What constitutes a better human?

          Sat, August 20, 2005 - 7:00 PM
          But so far in this thread I have read about long life, more intelligence (what ever that means i.e. building better bombs may be more intelligent), stronger and faster. I have not heard one thing that wasn't "mechanical" in nature. Nothing about compassion, or withing *within* your enviornment not just in it. You were the first to get my point.
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            Re: What constitutes a better human?

            Sun, August 21, 2005 - 12:47 PM
            To clear up a point - I believe a much more intelligent human being, i.e., a more rational one, is necessarily a more empathic human being. Intelligence, I believe, must include improved compassion for all life including one's own. Without empathy, you're nothing more than a fairly cunning brute and predator. Those people are dinosaurs. Improved respect for one's own life, if one is behaving more rationally, leads to greater respect for ALL life. The most intelligent people I've ever known were also great empaths. The point is proven time and time again. Look at the most admired people in human history. Practically all are considered geniuses in their field and all had great empathy for their kind and many for life of all kinds. I think it's clear - great intelligence and great empathy are inseperable. Having said that, it follows that a sign of low empathy is also a sign of low intelligence. It will certainly take a great deal of time, but those traits are on their way out of our species. Human history illustrates as much. I don't believe it could have been otherwise. Evolution demands it.
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              Re: What constitutes a better human?

              Mon, April 17, 2006 - 4:57 PM
              Puting people with Albinism in a much more positive "Light"would definatly constitute a better Human. In fact, I only heard of ONE movie with an Albino character that did not portray the person with Albinism as an evil villain or a mistical Freak(Not Another Teen Movie). That movie had an Albino Folk singer singing about the supposed problembs that people with Albinism have.Hollywood needs to do a lot better.
  • Re: The best thing to optimise humans:

    Sat, August 20, 2005 - 8:21 PM
    INHO this is nowhere near simple enough for the practical level.

    Compassion, for instance, translates in practice as the ability to restrain instinctive impulses via the amygdala. Anyone who has read Goleman's "Emotional Intelligence" will have a strong sense of the immediate necessity for helping humans deal with the daily tumult of emotional impulses cascading through consciousness.

    It seems likely that the first improvements will be subject to market forces rather than moral judgement. I am not sure which is less fallible frankly so perhaps it's a good thing that the rich will get to experiment on themselves with longer lifespans, enhanced memory, and other challenges of the time-honored human situation.

    Per se I think intelligence increase is useless: what good is a really smart redneck, who has not got the insight or sense of self-care to transcend self-harming hatred or fearful limited views? What good is a smarter fireman, when heroism and immediacy is most useful?

    Research by a Californian woman whose name I forget indicates that what constitutes a better human is adequate loving and touch in early life, which allows for proper neuroendocrine and personality formation. This greatly increases the chances that life will be better for such a person.

    So legisative controls on parenting and reproductive rights are really the main thing which can improve humanity. No-one knows to what extent we are over-shooting the best size of the human population, but what we can say for sure is that population control cannot be left to the individual and expect them to perform optimally.

    The best thing we can presently do to better humans is to look not at incremental improvements but to envision the optimal human being. Better is just good enough; being the best you can be is realistic and ideal at once.

    The next best thing to better humans is parenting and reproductive controls in the west, along the lines of the Chinese experiment.

    Then the next best thing after that to better humans is drugs which allow the amygdala to work properly, inhibiting violent and evil sexual impulses in humans who cannot help but be that way at present, and thus protecting society from the most long-term and immediately destructive forms of evil, psychopathology and paedophilia.
    • Re: The best thing to optimise humans:

      Sun, August 21, 2005 - 12:45 PM
      Despite all this neuro, structural stuff thats been expressed so far I do go with that lovely doggie...insomuch emotions & understanding of them, could constitute a better human. To understand ones own inner dimensions & the way this relates to Nature as a whole, & works with it & not against it. In doing so we would therefore see in a better balanced context, therefore be able to affect the psychotic types of behaviour we find so disturbing now.
      It all begins within the `family` dimensions you know! Which then affects the social aspects, on so forth.
      To suggest parenting along the lines of the chinese is ludicrous to say the least. Look whats happen there! To suggest a drug that will finish perceived violence or/& evil within humankind, the same!
      It may take longer, it may be harder, it may challenge us more, but, the rewards for inner understanding within a global/Nature context would be far-reaching & bring about more a sense of stabilty, then some of the suggestions so far.
      I love (wink) throwing the gauntlet down, so give me your best shot!
      • Re: The best thing to optimise humans:

        Sun, August 21, 2005 - 2:08 PM
        Hi Lynne

        > To suggest parenting along the lines of the chinese is ludicrous to say the least. Look whats happen there!

        What exactly is "happening" there, lol?

        > To suggest a drug that will finish perceived violence or/& evil within humankind, the same!

        Is that to indicate you might not find psychopathology and paedophilia flat out evil, lol?

        My best shot is: please explain what on earth you're talking about Lynne.

        Rgds,

        PB.
        • Re: The best thing to optimise humans:

          Wed, August 24, 2005 - 4:28 AM
          To suggest parenting along the lines of the chinese is ludicrous to say the least. Look whats happen there!

          <`What exactly is "happening" there, lol`>

          Chinese who have a female birth in their family, are dumping them. There are terrible orphanages for these female abanded children.
          The male brings in the money, so in there 1 child quest, they are favouring the male. In the future there will be a dearth of females.

          To suggest a drug that will finish perceived violence or/& evil within humankind, the same!

          <Is that to indicate you might not find psychopathology and paedophilia flat out evil, lol?>

          No I don`t find it the personifacation of evil. These are just people who have been found out, the most disposable of the sex offenders. The majority are surrounded by power/families!
          I do hate paedophilia don`t get me wrong, but, they are after all a product of society. That should be investigated more. The reasons why, should be on the agenda. The circumstances that lead to a person doing such horrific & dis-empowering acts are the responsibility of all of us to explore further. To sweep this under the carpet & label as evil, is not dealing with it on a long term basis.

          <My best shot is: please explain what on earth you're talking about Lynne.>

          Thats what I am talking about.
          Your shot now Paul.
          • Re: The best thing to optimise humans:

            Wed, August 24, 2005 - 6:16 AM
            LOL Lynne love it!

            It seems the Chinese that treat their girlchildren so poorly are both sexist, ill-educated, and short-sighted. But that is not the one-child policy itself; that is just one response to it. A lot of Chinese love having one child; their pets get the Chinese words for "brother" and "sister" in Chinese households; and no-body on the mainland knows what the Chinese for "aunt" or "uncle" is because there are none there.

            I honestly don't think China would have survived the last thirty years without this policy. They saw a population catastrophe coming and had the centralised authority to apply a crude but effective solution.

            Yes, the dearth of females you mention is presently occuring, in case you were wondering, with many odd side effects on neighbouring countries and the Thai mail order bride industry. On the other hand, a wonderful renaissance of male homosexuality is also strangely present at the same time in China, so mother nature has a fabulous way of making do for a lack of women. Maybe Beijing will host the next Gay Gaymes with much glory to the nation?

            I suggest you separate Chinese patriarchal "culture" from the one-child policy itself. Suppose for a second that the United States had 2.95 billion people instead of the present 295 million? That's a lot of thanksgiving turkey. Or suppose Australia had 200 million instead of 20 million it has presently? We Aussies would probably have water rations all through the year instead of just for summer! Or imagine if Canada had ten times more Canadians - actually, no, don't imagine that.

            But when we look at China, with 1.3 billion people, we simply see the future of the human animal. Humans will continue to breed to the maximum possible level, no matter what anyone says or does, until civilised central controls on the human breeding program are installed. The Chinese merely exercised longsighted common sense, a quality which our honorable Chinese overlords are masters of.

            As to psychopathology and paedophilia, I am afraid we don't know a whole lot about these conditions yet. Despite half a century of study, we still don't have much idea about what they are or how they work. Frankly I think your educated bromides on what they are seem like nothing much more than promising excuses. Seriously: we just don't know a whole lot about them yet.

            But may I suggest, again, separating people who suffer from these conditions (psychopaths, paedophiles and their victims) from the condition which oppresses them?

            What I am proposing is that the conditions of psychopathology and paedophilia are like mental illness is now, and may be treated so in the future - a fully treatable and "okay" problem to have, which is at worst embarrassing.

            It would benefit countless people to have their condition "turned off" by medications long before it damaged anyone else's life. If a three year old is diagnosed with the genes for psychopathology then it is easier to help than when a thirty year old is jailed (or, worse, becomes CEO!) for the consequences of his illness.

            I label these conditions evil simply because they ruin the offender and victim's lives and character, not because I think the people are intrinsically bad.

            Peace and laughter,

            Paul Bard.
            • Re: The best thing to optimise humans:

              Wed, August 24, 2005 - 6:44 AM
              Thank you paul, I found your observations of China very interesting, you taught me something there.

              I do agree that we (globally) should take more responsibility for the amount of children we have.
              Children have become akin to teddy bears or pets, insomuch, they fill the void that some feel is missing in their lives. Amongst other, don`t give a shit feelings. The trouble is when we over-populate, the space for each & all gets smaller, then survival instincts kick in, then we breed more....etc, etc!
              The same for poor countries/families, more children....more chances to get those bucks in! I know this is broad, but nonetheless a real issue.

              Thats why within my profession as a Dominatrix, the semen is`nt the issue, or should I say the speading of it. Its the journey, much like Tantric ideas.

              Regards paedophilia whilst we as nations reject the very real issues of sex, because of religion, especially christianity (muslims too), we will never trly get to the depths of what is at hand. How many feel this way & why! Whilst we condemn, which is not to say condone, we drive underground the obvious. So in order to medicate, as you say, we have to find!
              Then who administers the medication? Will is an issue here too. People who have had symptoms of say, schizophrenia, are notorious in stopping there own medication, under the impression that because their symptoms have gone, that they are well!

              I take what you say about your definition re: evil, & go with you on that.

              Your shot, Paul!
              • Re: The best thing to optimise humans:

                Wed, August 24, 2005 - 8:53 PM
                Great point you make there Lynne, which I think warrants its own thread.
                • Re: The best thing to optimise humans:

                  Thu, August 25, 2005 - 2:52 AM
                  Seriously... great sex, long life, genius intelligence and stunning good looks should be basic (trans)human rights of the future!

                  I'm sure a market for character traits will be an efficient and entirely moral way to ensure the stability and viability of humankind for centuries to come, LOL.

                  Kickin the thought on a bit... we can have virtual reality pay-per-user services for the pyschopaths and paedophiles to damage as many virtual imaginary lives as they wish. And while we're at it, we can speed up subjective time for depressives so they get over their funk faster, and construct virtual realities to keep the schitzophrenics and bipolar folk amused indefinitely...

                  That's one future. A libertarian one, with an open market for human traits. But I don't think it would be a democratic future somehow, which is kind of leaving the important part behind I think.
      • Re: The best thing to optimise humans:

        Sun, August 21, 2005 - 2:15 PM
        > inner understanding within a global/Nature context would be far-reaching & bring about more a sense of stabilty, then some of the suggestions so far.

        one radical possibility here is cracking open the human immune system so it can synergise with the global bacterial system. that would help it learn much faster and potentially make it more intelligent. the immune system is another kind of brain entirely, so bolstering it's abilities might produce the kind of inner awareness of nature which you are talking about.

        I have wondered for years whether hiv may not be a precursor to such an improvement. my friendship with a long term survivor of hiv taught me a LOT about listening to body feelings and trusting body wisdom.

        A long term survivor of hiv is almost always far far more in tune with his body's intelligence than most people can imagine. Perhaps the best analogy is the chinese man who lived to a hundred and ten. When a reporter asked him how he did it he told them the secret of long life. He said:

        "When I'm hungry I eat like a horse. When I wake up I walk like a child. When I'm tired I sleep like a dog."

        I wonder if simply listening to the ol' bod constitutes your notion of a better human?
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      Re: The best thing to optimise humans:

      Sun, August 21, 2005 - 1:04 PM
      "Per se I think intelligence increase is useless: what good is a really smart redneck, who has not got the insight or sense of self-care to transcend self-harming hatred or fearful limited views? What good is a smarter fireman, when heroism and immediacy is most useful?"

      ----------

      Your point is well taken. I'd say that anyone who hasn't overcome "self-harming hatred or fearful limited views" hasn't experienced any great improvement in intelligence. They still behave in essentially the same irrational ways. As far as heroism goes, the smarter fireman is more apt to be heroic and able to think quickly on his feet. And, as I said, intelligence and compassion are inseperable. What can be more heroic than an intelligent man who absolutely respects his own life and by extension of proper reasoning absolutely respects ALL life? THAT is my definition of a better human being. Gadgets and enhancements are nice, but who wants a more improved kind of unthinking brute?
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    Re: What constitutes a better human?

    Sat, January 28, 2006 - 9:59 AM
    Hi Lynn,I think quite a few things constitutes a better human.Integrity,Lovingkindness,compassion,and being a good listener just to name a few.
    • Re: What constitutes a better human?

      Sun, February 19, 2006 - 10:46 AM
      Hi Stephen, yes I totally agree. I think its really lovely to think of all the good things we can be or want to be, or would want others to be..rather than the usual picking & prodding stance that many favour to create fear , confusion or defensiveness.
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    Never Delete? I DONT THINK SO!!!!

    Sat, September 30, 2006 - 9:06 PM
    Listen Lynne,remember the advice you gave me some months ago to never delete because of what other People might think? Well if I delete a disscusion that I start and that I feel is getting to be too stressful,than why the Hell SHOULD I care what other people think about it?!!?? Im sorry Lynne,but you give crappy advice!!/,....;:; I have an Obsessive Compulssive Disorder with Anxiety so excuse ME if I dont happen to think like YOU!!!!
    • Re: Never Delete? I DONT THINK SO!!!!

      Thu, November 2, 2006 - 2:33 AM
      I left this tribe but re-joined..left because of overloading tribes & not having time to involve myself..but here I am again with more time to spare.
      Stephen this is a copy of our convo & I have gone through it again..you brought the original disagreement back to my memory.
      For the life of me I cannot see how I could of upset you so badly for you to retort back so & remove me from your friends list...not that it bothers me but I hate to think that I could upset someone so much.
      Especially on a tribe about betterhumans....anyone got any advice on this one?Heres our convo:

      Oh I remember. You must not let others get tio you so much Stephen.....discussion & interaction rarely comes in the form that suits us all..it is challenging, both to our intellect & our emotions. Ignore if you must...but never delete, it comes over as you not being in control in some way...don`t let others get to you so much...ask others that you feel may support you for their imput. I found thats the best way to get out of entangling emtional issues.
      Lynne
      Stephen Lang wrote:

      >
      > Lynne Tansey wrote:
      > > Thank you Stephen for your kind comments. Of
      > > course would be honoured to join you personal
      > > network. What writing have you seen by the way?
      > > Just out of curiosity.
      > > Lynne Well Lynne, theres the Interesting
      > Quote" discussion that I started. I liked
      > what you had to say there.Of course I deleted
      > the discussion because of ZIZOS hurtful and
      > insulting remarks directed tored me.And Ilike
      > youre comments from other discussions too.
      > Take care,...STEPHEN
      >

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