Tribe.net. Local Connections $item.owner.firstName http://betterhumans.tribe.net/thread/0a02f626-0433-4954-a01f-d0d16c24d140#63df0dd7-34a5-47b8-8a10-e36b31c91dda 2006-07-23T19:16:10Z 2006-07-23T19:16:10Z

By free will,I mean the ability to think for onesself and if our minds are all merged together in some "Hodgepodge"fashion,how can we POSSIBLY do that?!? And wont terms like "I"and "Me"become meanningless?

$item.owner.firstName 2006-07-23T19:16:10Z $item.owner.firstName http://betterhumans.tribe.net/thread/0a02f626-0433-4954-a01f-d0d16c24d140#186314c8-f7fd-4c12-bba9-56048842392d 2006-07-23T19:07:42Z 2006-07-23T19:07:42Z

I desire more mental changes so that People can become more loving,compassionate,and understanding./,....Nature has its Good side and I greatly enjoy and appreciate it, but Nature ALSO has a very Bad side like fatal deseases and various types of Natural Disasters.What we (Humanists and Transhumanists alike) are trying to change is the BAD part of Nature.

$item.owner.firstName 2006-07-23T19:07:42Z sarah http://betterhumans.tribe.net/thread/0a02f626-0433-4954-a01f-d0d16c24d140#311bf5e9-9fa4-432b-802b-cd57274fb836 2006-07-23T12:06:57Z 2006-07-23T12:06:57Z

Stephen I don't actually think I was advocating a move back to a stone age lifestyle. To clarify, my thread was actually more to ascertain the motivations behind why people subscribe to the better humans or transhumanist philosophy; where and how they envision the use of technology going. The thread was phrased as such in an attempt to encourage people to express their viewpoints against an alternative view rather than a means to elicit criticism. Now that you know where i'm coming from maybe you could help me out and tell me what your particular motivations are for embracing technological change to become a 'better human'? For instance, are you desires more physically based or do you desire more mental changes so that humans can reach greater levels of compassion, understanding and acceptance? thanks in advance

sarah 2006-07-23T12:06:57Z $item.owner.firstName http://betterhumans.tribe.net/thread/0a02f626-0433-4954-a01f-d0d16c24d140#7a77e6aa-6ddb-44da-992e-d3e05baf84b2 2006-07-22T19:23:30Z 2006-07-22T19:23:30Z

Well Lazarus, I geuse that if we were all pacifists we would still need physical strengh especially if we want to rescue other people from dangerous situations but I dont think you fully understand what my past "thread"was all about. I have known quite a few people that were physically handycapped and one thing I learned from it is that if you cannot physically overcome a physical handycap,than you can you can overcome it psycologically by looking beond ones disability and focosing instead on ones own talents and abilitys.That is the key to physically disabled people getting enjoyment out of Life!

$item.owner.firstName 2006-07-22T19:23:30Z Lazarus http://betterhumans.tribe.net/thread/0a02f626-0433-4954-a01f-d0d16c24d140#0c7bada4-b3ad-4d5c-9597-6410e4ff8913 2006-07-22T18:30:03Z 2006-07-22T18:30:03Z

>>>If we merge our minds and become a "Hive Tribe"as you call it, wont that take away our free will? <<< If we have it to begin with then we cannot lose it to a larger self. The perspective of what *I am* merely takes on larger meaning than our present perspectives will ever comprehend

Lazarus 2006-07-22T18:30:03Z Lazarus http://betterhumans.tribe.net/thread/0a02f626-0433-4954-a01f-d0d16c24d140#8dc07425-0bf3-47ba-b35c-f50a287e2821 2006-07-22T18:26:55Z 2006-07-22T18:26:55Z

Never let it be said Stephen that I ever discounted the important value of intelligence but there is the need of balance too. Body and mind must achieve balance to truly advance the whole, Intelligence without body lacks the hands to express the will or the ability to defend its ideals in the face of adversity. Truly great physical prowess cannot sustain itself without the vision and integrity to confront the challenges of success. Mere materialism inevitably succumbs to the decadence and futility of banal venal materialism without the mind to stay true to the self and adapt to the changes in the world around, not to mention the vicissitudes of age. It is the process of maturity that converts the lead weight of years into golden wisdom.

Lazarus 2006-07-22T18:26:55Z $item.owner.firstName http://betterhumans.tribe.net/thread/0a02f626-0433-4954-a01f-d0d16c24d140#fb54e455-ab31-4a8e-a546-4db90e0af9a8 2006-07-22T18:19:01Z 2006-07-22T18:19:01Z

If we merge our minds and become a "Hive Tribe"as you call it,wont that take away our free will?

$item.owner.firstName 2006-07-22T18:19:01Z $item.owner.firstName http://betterhumans.tribe.net/thread/0a02f626-0433-4954-a01f-d0d16c24d140#6954cb66-31d7-4b02-a679-dd8d597dc616 2006-07-22T18:15:23Z 2006-07-22T18:15:23Z

Sarah,if you feel that way,than you DONT belong in this tribe.You belong in the "Lets Go Back To The Damn STONE AGE Tribe!!!!

$item.owner.firstName 2006-07-22T18:15:23Z $item.owner.firstName http://betterhumans.tribe.net/thread/0a02f626-0433-4954-a01f-d0d16c24d140#6fb2e134-726b-4261-9fd5-5047cc023fa0 2006-07-22T18:10:38Z 2006-07-22T18:10:38Z

Well yes Lazarus,it IS what you use it for,but as far as problemb solving goese,intelligence is much more important than physical strength.

$item.owner.firstName 2006-07-22T18:10:38Z $item.owner.firstName http://betterhumans.tribe.net/thread/0a02f626-0433-4954-a01f-d0d16c24d140#329a378a-14ec-4d69-91d0-71d1071ffea2 2006-07-22T18:06:08Z 2006-07-22T18:06:08Z

Have you ever seen the movieTuck Everlsting Lazerus? I think you would really like that movie.

$item.owner.firstName 2006-07-22T18:06:08Z Lazarus http://betterhumans.tribe.net/thread/0a02f626-0433-4954-a01f-d0d16c24d140#6f5ce2d8-d3d4-4b74-be38-429759ac3a9a 2006-07-07T02:24:35Z 2006-07-07T02:24:35Z

Sarah I do not think there are political solutions only political process. Competition won't go away unless there is no reason to compete. So long as there are differences of class and ideology there will be competition a for power between groups. However I think individuals and some groups can overcome this and move on to other levels of evolution Change is inevitable and change is a part of the natural order of evolution. Ultimately all successful change in about adaptation to meet the demands of environment, survival and advancement. Keeping in our current state is exactly what I do not anticipate and living a very long time, if not successfully eternal is very desirable. Don't you like seeing how we encounter problems and then solve them? How about the importance of age related experience and maturity being brought to bear on all those problems you mention? How do you think we will "find the time" to sort out all those problems like finding peace between peoples? Also if people had more to live for maybe it would be easier to find a common ground to build a lasting peace upon instead of fear. Do you realize that the flip side of the nuclear age policy of Mutually Assured Destruction that came to define the entire political basis of the second half of the 20th Century is also responsible for one of the longest periods of relative peace between nations in historical times? Yes there is still violence but actually it is the peace between nations now that is making a global society possible. How about being able to augment our intelligence and linguistic ability. No please don't confuse this desire with vanity. It is much more about self definition and survival. Can humans be better you ask? Better than what? Better than we are now? Of course we can all be better than we are and that is what defines growth too. Are we *better* than our forebears 25 thousand years ago that gave up scavenging and nomadic gathering for a rudimentary sedentary lifestyle? It really depends on what you mean by better now doesn't it? Are we more ethical? Unknown and unknowable. Are we more compassionate. Certainly by today's standards. Are we just better off rather than better as human beings? I think considering the differences in our brains and bodies as well as the potential of our collective body of knowledge that we can claim to be better than those ancestors but it is really a moot point. Well it is moot except that we might be able to accelerate the next 25 thousand years of human evolution into the next two or three centuries. Now wouldn't that be great to witness and be a part of, don't you think?

Lazarus 2006-07-07T02:24:35Z sarah http://betterhumans.tribe.net/thread/0a02f626-0433-4954-a01f-d0d16c24d140#cc594180-fc65-4036-b92e-6b672fa2ac2a 2006-07-07T02:12:33Z 2006-07-07T02:12:33Z

Obviously the benifits and attributes of any skill is in its application but (and just indulge me on this one) really, what are the benifits of being stronger, thinking faster, living longer- what are we trying to compete with or would you just say it's a greatly improved, faster process of evolution. If just being more accomplished than your ancestors is only what this is about then fine but if not then where does this desire to enhance yourself come from? Do you think we crave these things because there is an inherent dissatisfaction with our physical bodies- compared to the seemingly boundless nature of the mind are our bodies and our limitations just holding us back? therefore is this desire to enhance ourself just a means so that in some way we can transcend the physical body and catch up with the mind?

sarah 2006-07-07T02:12:33Z sarah http://betterhumans.tribe.net/thread/0a02f626-0433-4954-a01f-d0d16c24d140#69809439-d6a8-40f3-bbfa-67bd121918a1 2006-07-07T01:59:22Z 2006-07-07T01:59:22Z

So is your motivation for changing ourselves mainly for the benefit of the planet? If so, don't you think that technological concentration is far better used when it is directed at the problem such as controlling birth numbers, finding more non polluting methods in industry and homes, actually giving time and effort to sort out animosities between countries so that war never occurs. Basically It just seems like technologically changing our bodies is attractive because it's a way where we can keep living in our current state and then modify ourselves to cope and adapt to the newly inhospitable environment. Just on a side note, would you really want to be eternal?

sarah 2006-07-07T01:59:22Z Lazarus http://betterhumans.tribe.net/thread/0a02f626-0433-4954-a01f-d0d16c24d140#cb688650-9edb-43c2-a094-f3f0e30c9490 2006-07-06T05:35:58Z 2006-07-06T05:35:58Z

AS Roy already knows I agree with all that he has suggested but will add we can live for vastly longer and make ourselves more intelligent, maybe even compassionate. And no, Sarah physical strength, like intelligence isn't about parlor tricks, it is about what you use it for, IOW problem solving.

Lazarus 2006-07-06T05:35:58Z Roy http://betterhumans.tribe.net/thread/0a02f626-0433-4954-a01f-d0d16c24d140#b606b391-c364-48d8-9635-0eeb1ac5dabd 2006-07-06T05:24:47Z 2006-07-06T05:24:47Z

Nihilist eh? Oh well. We could reduce our size down to half thus get more on the planet. Or become photosynthetic so we consume far less. Or be able to change sex so that when war comes 99% of the population is female. Or become aquatic so we can live in the oceans giving more room for more of us. Or be able to merge minds to become a hive mind, thus eternal. Or all of the above just to have fun!

Roy 2006-07-06T05:24:47Z B http://betterhumans.tribe.net/thread/0a02f626-0433-4954-a01f-d0d16c24d140#b0ca22bc-f1c3-40ec-a73f-eda40971ba80 2006-07-06T04:29:34Z 2006-07-06T04:29:34Z

May I point out the Nihilist tribe behind this curtain.

B 2006-07-06T04:29:34Z sarah http://betterhumans.tribe.net/thread/0a02f626-0433-4954-a01f-d0d16c24d140#43cd9fa6-bcf3-4f56-acb1-b0e68dd052e0 2006-07-06T02:07:51Z 2006-07-06T02:07:51Z

so you could make bones stronger, make our eyes be able to see in microscopic and infrared etc but really what would be the point. Would you do it so you had a neat party trick up your sleve, be stronger than most of the people around or be able to remember every little thing you ever saw and did. And even if you could do this, what would be the motivation? is it just some weird survival of the fittest thing to be bigger and better that everyone else or do you really think it these things are a means to enhance your life, possibly a way to make you more statisfied and content or just in a better position comparative to now?

sarah 2006-07-06T02:07:51Z Roy http://betterhumans.tribe.net/thread/0a02f626-0433-4954-a01f-d0d16c24d140#f7c66fe1-37b6-41d5-bed1-fe978cdfb32c 2006-07-05T18:50:35Z 2006-07-05T18:50:35Z

The present workings of the human body are "perry damn perfect"? Oh come on now. There are thousands of possible improvements. Our vision falls badly when compared to our technology- focus infrared images, microscopic vision, etc. We could have bones more resistant to breakage. We could greatly increase the abilities of our mind, especially as to memory. I could go on for hours. As yes, most new technological advances spend their first moments as a whim or luxury for the wealthy but whar's that got to do with anything?

Roy 2006-07-05T18:50:35Z sarah http://betterhumans.tribe.net/thread/0a02f626-0433-4954-a01f-d0d16c24d140#5a6fdf0f-b2f4-487d-86a5-d5641c970922 2006-07-05T10:11:04Z 2006-07-05T10:11:04Z

Obviously we are not perfect and can have many flaws both in our physical and conscious being. However wouldn't you say that if you ignore the flaws of our being and consciousness or those that are physically impaired then the body, its workings such as homeostasis, nerve function etc is pretty damn perfect? I don't believe that any technology we create can achieve better coherence and integration than the systems present in nature. Therefore, apart from those medical technologies used to restore loss body function, should we really even bother going down the road of creating technology with the intent of integrating it into the body in order to improve it? Surely all the devices that people desire such as microchips in their brains etc are just the next step in whims and fashions rather than actually being something useful that will really enhance our way of living

sarah 2006-07-05T10:11:04Z